Ten Years of Fiction/Non/Fiction: An Anniversary Episode

Co-hosts Whitney Terrell, V.V. Ganeshananthan, and Jennifer Maritza McCauley are joined by poet and essayist Kathryn Nuernberger, a frequent guest and longtime friend of the show, for a look back at the past decade of episodes. The quartet discuss the show’s origins, its focus on the Midwest and the globe, how the hosts prep for interviews, and how they think about the show’s tagline: “We believe that every issue in your social media feed or on the evening news has already been tackled somewhere in literature.”

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Rylee Adamson, Valen Williams, and Lucien Hockaday.

Co-Hosts

Whitney Terrell • Jennifer Maritza McCauley • V. V. Ganeshananthan • Christian Barter

Guest

Kathryn Nuernberger

Held: Essays in Belonging • The Witch of Eye

Episodes Mentioned:

Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 1, Episode 1: The Art of Taking a Knee: Colin Kaepernick Edition • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 1, Episode 4: We’re All Russian, Now • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 1, Episode 12: C. Riley Snorton and T Fleischmann Talk Gender, Freedom, and Transitivity • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 2, Episode 1: MFA vs. Everything: Four Writers Weigh In • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 3, Episode 19: Black Stories Matter: Terrion Williamson and Jabari Asim on Narrative During the George Floyd Protests • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 4, Episode 3: Monsters for President: Maria Dahvana Headley on Modern Mythmaking • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 4, Episode 16: Michael Kleber-Diggs and Kao Kalia Yang on How Minnesota’s Literary Community Is Reacting to Racial Injustice • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 7, Episode 18: Glenn North on Kansas City’s Jazz, Poetry, and Barbeque • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 9, Episode 30: Rebecca Lehmann on Anne Boleyn, Trump, and Treason • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 9, Episode 41: Lupe Mendez on Texas Politics and the Killing of Lorenzo Salgado Araujo • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 9, Episode 45: Aruni Kashyap on India’s Cockroach Youth Movement

EXCERPT FROM A CONVERSATION WITH KATHRYN NUERNBERGER

Kathryn Nuernberger: I’m so happy to be here. And I was wondering, when you had the idea for the show in 2016, did you expect to be sitting here 10 years later still talking about the relationship between literature and the news?

Whitney Terrell: I really had no idea that it would last this long. I don’t even know if it should have, but it’s kind of like most things in my life. Once I start doing it, it gets embedded in the rhythm of how I live my life, right? On a certain night, we’re going to write this script.

It also became a class that I taught at UMKC, and then it became a reason that I talked to Sugi every week, and so now it’s become part of it. It’s hard to imagine not doing it. It’s like imagining not writing in a way, you know. Although I guess I would have more time to write if I wasn’t doing the show! But yeah, I had no idea it would last this long. I’m very happy that it did, though. What about you, Sugi?

V.V. Ganeshananthan: I remember when you asked me to host the show with you. I think we were at AWP having lunch, and I wondered, “How much work will this be?” And I thought, “It’s going to be an enormous amount of work,” and it was more work than I had imagined, and also a lot more fun than I had imagined.

I learned a lot of things that I hadn’t anticipated learning and didn’t really know you could learn from working this way. It’s been great to meet all of the writers, to meet a lot of your friends. I feel like in a funny way I got access to your Rolodex. It’s been cool also in recent years to add some new co-hosts, Jennifer, as well as the poet Christian Barter, who joined us earlier this year. That’s been a lot of fun.

WT: So I just said the tagline up at top, which I’ve said now quite quite a few more times than I imagined that I would. You know, about every issue in your social media feed or on the evening news has already been tackled in literature. I still think it’s true, and I think it’s important.

The thing is the podcast lasts because it’s a good idea. I mean, there are lots of writers who have lots of ideas about politics and do write about politics either in the past or now, and people who want to talk about politics, you know, so we get to do that. You’re not going to find a bunch of fiction writers and poets showing up on the traditional podcasts that do politics, like the Bulwark or Pod Save America. They’re not going to have writers on. We’ve interpreted politics in a lot of different ways, and our personalities and interests and locations have driven themes. Do you feel that way?

VVG: I remember at one point you laughing and telling me that we were a surprisingly South Asia and Sri Lanka-forward literary podcast. What a strange thing. Anyway, we’re also actually also a Midwestern show. We’ve done a suspicious number of episodes focused on Kansas City, where you and Jennifer both are.

KN: You’ve also done episodes focusing on emerging writers and their writing life. I was remembering the first time I was on the show was for an episode about MFAs and PhDs in creative writing.

Jennifer Maritza McCauley: I was a huge fan. The first episode I listened to was in 2018, actually, and it was the episode with Brit Bennett and Matt Gallagher. The football players had protested at Mizzou, and that happened in my first year as a PhD student. And I was just looking for something that I could grab onto. I remember seeing LitHub was posting this brand new podcast, and I was just like, “Ooh, I want to listen to that.” And I really, really enjoyed it. I don’t think I would have ever dreamed I’d be working with you, Whitney, and being with the co-hosts. I think it’s a dream come true. I love this quote from Bennett where she said, “Everything is a metaphor and symbol now, and we can’t agree on what those metaphors and symbols mean.”  It was a great episode, and it’s been such a joy to work with y’all.

WT: Well, that story is very heartwarming because that’s kind of what we hoped would happen for listeners trying to find the podcast and looking for it in a place like LitHub.

Transcribed by Otter.ai. Condensed and edited by Rylee Adamson, Valen Williams, and Lucien Hockaday. Photograph of V.V. Ganeshananthan by Sophia Mayrhofer. Photograph of Whitney Terrell by Leslie Many. Photograph of Jennifer Maritza McCauley by Jesse Biehn.