Elle Everhart and Ellie Palmer on the Rise of Romance
In Conversation with Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan on Fiction/Non/Fiction
Romance novelists Elle Everhart and Ellie Palmer join co-hosts V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell to talk about the genre’s increasing popularity. Everhart, the London-based author of the new book Hot Summer, featuring a protagonist who joins the cast of a reality show only to realize she’s interested in a fellow contestant, discusses coming to romance writing as a fourth grader fascinated by kissing, and wonders why as sales boom, the U.S.—but not the U.K.—is seeing more romance-specific bookstores. Palmer, the author of the new book Four Weekends and a Funeral, whose main character is a carrier of the BRCA1 mutation, recalls falling in love with the genre as she prepared for her own preventative double mastectomy. She reflects on how the genre’s structure promises positive endings for those who need them at challenging moments, and how the language of romance gave her a way to think about her own body and sexuality. Everhart reads from Hot Summer and Palmer reads from Four Weekends and a Funeral.
Check out video excerpts from our interviews at Lit Hub’s Virtual Book Channel, Fiction/Non/Fiction’s YouTube Channel, and our website. This episode of the podcast was produced by Anne Kniggendorf.
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From the episode:
V.V. Ganeshananthan: I want to start with a personal question, a little bit about how each of you chose this as your genre. Were you always romance writers? Did you come to romance from somewhere else? Elle, maybe we can start with you.
Elle Everhart: Yeah, so I’ve always been a romance writer. Even back in… I joke that my start writing romance was in fourth grade, when I had a little composition notebook full of stories of people kissing that my mother then found and had to talk to me about the appropriateness of doing that. I’ve always just been fascinated with love and people finding their person or their people and trying to write my way into that. I can’t imagine writing anything else, and I don’t think I’m qualified to write anything else, to be very honest. So romance for me, 100 percent.
VVG: Ellie, how about you?
Ellie Palmer: I’ve always been a fan of the rom-com movie genre, your Nora Ephrons, your Nancy Meyers. But I came to romance novels a bit more recently. I’m a carrier of the breast cancer genetic mutation, and I fell in love with the genre when I was preparing for my preventative mastectomy. It was not only a time when I really needed to feel wrapped in joy, but I was also thinking a lot about my diagnosis and my body, and its impact on my sexuality and femininity, and these books really gave me the language to discuss my body, and what I was afraid I’d be losing. So, when I started writing my own novel featuring a woman post-mastectomy, I quickly discovered that the story I wanted to tell could only be a romance. Romance is the one genre that promises every reader that they’ll leave the protagonist better than they found them, and I wanted readers with a relationship to breast cancer or hereditary cancer to get lost in a funny hopeful story of self-acceptance. And they couldn’t do that if they were bracing themselves for a third-act-cancer-twist and romance was the only way that I could solve that problem. So, as the story unfolded, it became this novel about finding yourself while falling in love. And now I’m a romance writer, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Whitney Terrell: Here’s how this episode came about: I was walking down the street near my new home on 31st Street in Kansas City, and I passed Under the Cover, a brand new romance bookstore. I mean, it’s been around for maybe a year. And it’s the first in Kansas City I discovered. And then, roughly around the same time, I was having dinner with my family, my sisters, and one of them was in town from California. So both my sisters are present at dinner, and I asked them for an episode idea, and they said romance novels. And that is not normal. It’s not that it’s… Nothing is wrong with that, but they haven’t answered that before ever in conversation, or even really, I don’t remember them talking about their interest in romance novels. But that day, with the help of their daughters, they gave me a very detailed summary of the books that they’ve been reading lately in the romance genre. What gives? Why in this of all moments, why is this of all moments the moment for romance novels and bookstores?
EP: Yes, so many people are finding romance right now. Romance has always been this popular genre, with women especially, but they were seen as these guilty pleasures you had to hide in your drawer. And I think with the rise of social media, more and more women found that they weren’t alone in their affection for these books. Readers started to question why they felt shame for these novels that often centered on and celebrated women’s stories.
Meanwhile, the texts themselves are just getting more and more inclusive. More people are seeing themselves reflected in these novels than ever before. So naturally, they become this source of community and connection. We have a fantastic romance bookstore in the Twin Cities called Tropes and Trifles. Every time I walk in there, strangers are talking to each other. They’re recommending books, they’re making new friends, which feels so rare these days. Romance books and bookstores are definitely having this moment.
VVG: So, this podcast has a lot of Twin Cities and Minnesota listeners, because I am also in Minneapolis. Can you tell our listeners who might not know where that store is?
EP: Yes, it’s in Minneapolis, I think in a southern Minneapolis neighborhood. It’s across the street from a brewery, it’s right next to a no-waste store. So it’s a perfect little block to just hang out and spend an afternoon and pop in and get some romance novels.
VVG: All right, Minnesota listeners, Tropes and Trifles. So along with these stores, of course, The New York Times, harbinger of all trends, or sometimes after the fact, published an article headlined “Romance Bookstores are Booming” on July 7 of this year. But all of these examples are in the U.S., and Elle, we were wondering, as a writer based in London, if there is a similar boom going on in the U.K. and, if so, what might be going on there?
EE: Yeah, I’m seeing all the news from the U.S., and it does not seem to have caught on. We see the same boost in sales numbers—over 100 percent increase in sales over the last couple of years. So people are buying romance novels, but we don’t have dedicated bookstores to them yet. I’ve just seen that there’s one in Edinburgh that’s going to open up, I think in August, so we’ll have at least one that I’m aware of. But even if you go into the big box kind of bookstores, like Waterstones, their sections for romance are really quite small compared to what I’m used to before I left the U.S. to come over here. I couldn’t quite put my finger on why. I don’t know if it’s like, as you mentioned, Ellie, this idea of having to keep your book tucked away in a drawer, if in the U.K., we’re still suffering from that, to some extent. I’m not really sure how to explain it, but we’re definitely behind even though we have so many great Romance writers here. Mhairi McFarlane is from here, Beth O’Leary, Talia Hibbert, Bolu Babalola—are all from here, and writing brilliant romance novels. I just can’t imagine why we don’t have one dedicated store.
WT: Well, I have a theory, but maybe it’s bad, but you can tell me if I’m wrong. You know, we’re recording on July 16. I cannot remember a worse political period in America in my lifetime. Just yesterday, Trump-appointed judge Eileen Cannon dismissed the case against the former president based on charges of mishandling classified documents. Before that, President Trump was nearly assassinated, and then turned that into a photo op. Joe Biden had a terrible debate a couple of weeks ago or more. The Supreme Court declared the president had absolute immunity for any official act, including, according to some justices, killing a political opponent. No happy endings in sight, no love, no fairness. And this has been going on since 2016, in some form or another, as this podcast has chronicled. Could this be why people or at least maybe Americans, are turning to romance fiction? What do you think, Ellie?
EP: Oh, 100 percent. I think in times of uncertainty, it’s natural to gravitate toward media that offers warmth and comfort. We saw so much of this during COVID, and romance novels can do that so beautifully. But it’s not as though they’re just pure sunshine and rainbows. So many romance novels examine incredibly challenging and emotional topics like grief and rejection and trauma. And this genre doesn’t necessarily shy away from the complexities of the world we live in. But there’s always the promise of a light at the end of the tunnel. And right now, especially, I think a lot of people are searching for that kind of honesty that comes with a healthy dose of optimism that we’re not necessarily seeing out in the world right now.
VVG: So, Labour just won a huge victory in the U.K. A couple of friends of mine, both of whom have been recent guests on the show, were discussing Red, White and Royal Blue, which I had not read or heard of, and they were like, “Sugi, get with it!” And that movie, actually, I don’t know about the book, but it has quite a bit of political content. How does the political situation in the U.K. intersect with the world of romance fiction beyond that best known example?
EE: Yeah, I mean, I know that I’m –
WT: Sorry, Sugi. Not everyone knows that best known example. Could you please elaborate or ask Elle to elaborate?
VVG: Would you like to, Elle? Would you elaborate on this very dreamy queer romance?
EE: Yes. I mean, it’s hard to actually say it in words that aren’t just me kind of screaming about it. I read this book in a fever-like mania on a plane. Just started it as like, “Oh, you know, this will distract me,” and then consumed it. Essentially, it’s the first son of the first female president of the United States. They hail from Texas. So that in and of itself was a whole thing. She’s a Democrat and he ends up falling in love with his sworn enemy: the prince of the U.K.. And there’s a whole “We need to keep this hidden in the closet.” Yeah, it’s great if you want some drama.
Transcribed by Otter.ai. Condensed and edited by Vianna O’Hara. Photograph of Ellie Palmer by Morgan Lust. Photograph of Elle Everhart by Solveig Settemsdal.
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Others
“9 New Books We Recommend This Week” | May 4, 2023 | The New York Times • “Hot and Bothered: Four New Romance Novels” by Olivia Waite | August 7, 2020 | The New York Times • Nora Ephron • Nancy Meyers • Mhairi McFarlane • Beth O’Leary • Talia Hibbert • Bolu Babalola • “A Romance Bookstore Boom” by Olivia Waite | The New York Times • “Emily Henry is Proud to be Called a Romance Writer” by | The New York Times • Olivia Waite • Jodi Picoult • Love Island • Tropes & Trifles
